Curse

DIH49 · Oct 11, 2007, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

The Ward spot, really. You need to spec as high as possible into Healing...no room left for Earth Magic.

With reduced Air and only 6 in Earth, you can keep a reasonable ward while having the HP.

twicky_kid · Oct 11, 2007, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIH49

With reduced Air and only 6 in Earth, you can keep a reasonable ward while having the HP.

Interrupts and heal power are what keep HP from being used in the meta. It doesn't heal enough and you have to dedicate an entire bar to make it work.

Bankai · Oct 11, 2007, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Interrupts and heal power are what keep HP from being used in the meta. It doesn't heal enough and you have to dedicate an entire bar to make it work.

In this Meta, the fact that you can no longer put it on a runner and successfully protect the base keeps it from being used.

However, the suggested fix (10-15e, earshot, change healing iirc) would be suffering from Interrupt problems.

A little good positioning can take care of that though.

Master Ketsu · Oct 11, 2007, 07:11 AM // 07:11

...........

...................

.......bring back boon prot.....

It actually wouldnt be that broken anymore considering what it now has to put up with from nightfall. But I am joking.

Zuranthium · Oct 11, 2007, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIH49

With reduced Air and only 6 in Earth, you can keep a reasonable ward while having the HP.

I suppose...would personally rather just put the Ward on the Mesmer and keep Air at 14 for the highest spike potential, though.

~Z

IMMORTAlMITCH · Oct 11, 2007, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

I suppose...would personally rather just put the Ward on the Mesmer and keep Air at 14 for the highest spike potential, though.

~Z

Shellshock is quite effective at low air magic.

Shmanka · Oct 11, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Shellshock is quite effective at low air magic.

Hearts Shellshock

diabiosx · Oct 11, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

ive mirrored ensigns sentiments in some of my posts, so i am pretty much in total agreement with him.

ill just add the following.

game balance as dedicated PvPers would like with priority given to gameplay that rewards truly good players and encourages players to keep trying to reach higher and higher levels of play just doesnt sell as well as a game that is balanced for the casual gamer in mind who instead would like a priority given to gameplay that is easy to pick up, in which time spent does not equal success, in which they do not need to spend hours upon hours playing in order to compete with the hardcore crowd.

what i am basically saying is that whether its due to the general markets inexperience with marketing a profitable game based on its PvP credentials or whether they just dont care, Anet is running a business with the need to sell its game.

but 4 million copies of GW was not a result of its PvP gameplay.

Power creep seems to sell and the way PvP has been treated this casual crowd hungry for e-titles and grind can dapple in a bit of 'PvP' without it feeling completely foreign. Perhaps it would have been better for us to have found a game which marketed itself to PvPers like us instead of pandering to the masses.

In all honesty, that people care enough to post their thoughts on achieving proper PvP balance is just testimony to the potential that GW has never, and probably will never reach. Its some miracle that people still hope. Or maybe we just dont have anything better to do :P

What if we PvPers ask Anet to change skill functions when u enter pvp arenas? like what they planned for guild wars 2? For example Soul Reaping is unlimited energy in PvE but when u enter PvP realm, it becomes the current functionality.

Lorekeeper · Oct 11, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

What if we PvPers ask Anet to change skill functions when u enter pvp arenas? like what they planned for guild wars 2? For example Soul Reaping is unlimited energy in PvE but when u enter PvP realm, it becomes the current functionality.

this game has been out for how many years? Trust me the suggestion to treat game mechanics and skill mechanics separately between PvP and PvE has been made. It would have solved so many issues like the one you mentioned above concerning soul reaping abuse.

im not exactly sure why this solution was never considered or implemented. It might be an issue with game code, it might be against the central principles of their game design, one of which was the desired link between PvE and PvP.

but im confident that its probably one of the most if not the most important lesson Anet will learn from its experiment with GW 1.

moriz · Oct 11, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

the developers wanted a continuous game, so changing the skills so they perform differently in pve and pvp is not an option.

just imagine this: a new player picks up the game, finally played enough of the pve storyline to know enough to test his skills in pvp... only to find that his favourite build stops working and he needs to play something he's not familiar with to be competitive. it just doesn't work.

anyways, pveers already have pve only skills to play with. it's not like any of the skills that will be potentially changed affect them all that much.

Lorekeeper · Oct 11, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

the developers wanted a continuous game, so changing the skills so they perform differently in pve and pvp is not an option.

just imagine this: a new player picks up the game, finally played enough of the pve storyline to know enough to test his skills in pvp... only to find that his favourite build stops working and he needs to play something he's not familiar with to be competitive. it just doesn't work.

anyways, pveers already have pve only skills to play with. it's not like any of the skills that will be potentially changed affect them all that much.

thats the whole problem with the artificial link between PvE and PvP. You should never be given the impression that what is good at killing AI would be as good at killing human players.

PvP should not be marketed as an overly easy accessible game format. Like any competitive sport, whether it be online or in real life, it takes practice and talent.

this is where Anet met its first hurdle, it tried to find a compromise between meeting the demands of its PvE players and the demands of its PvP players, but the two are not very compatible.

you cannot and you should never expect to, be able to transfer your strategies and builds from PvE to PvP without the need for adaptation.

by accommodating this desire, PvP was dumbed down, with button mashing builds forever plaguing the meta, and power creep forcing the game away from rewarding skill based conclusions to build wars based conclusions.

the fact that the PvEers were given access to super powerful PvE only skills is striking testimony to the very different nature of PvE compared to PvP. With the introduction of hard mode and an over reliance on these PvE only skills, PvEers are in for a nasty suprise if or when they make their first steps into PvP.

theres very little reason to keep them linked.

moriz · Oct 11, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

i'm not talking about whether your strategies should be able to transfer over. i'm talking about whether the builds will function expectedly or not. it just doesn't make much sense to have different skill functions.

anet's greatest mistake was not making UAX available for pvp-only characters right off the bat. instead, they forced people to go through the pve campaign, which was designed to "prime" the player for pvp. obviously that didn't work as they expected.

Age · Oct 11, 2007, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Yep. I still vote for putting PvP back to Prophecies only. The game has gotten progressively more unplayable for me since then, to a point of completely unplayable today. Of course, we know this situation will never happen, but I honestly can't see the game ever being balanced again through conventional means.

Nice comparison. So you are saying Nightfall was the set that broke the game, and Gwen was the set where Anet set "oops we screwed up" and are really widening the PvP/PvP gap.

The only problem I see is that I doubt Anet even REALIZES how bad they screwed up. I don't think they realize how much Nightfall broke their game. And at this point, even if they DID realize, I don't think they care because they sell copies to PvE players now. Tragedy.

Yeah they did sell copies how would they stay in business if they didn't.Yes they made lot off of Prophecies but that still isn't enough to keep them going and to bring in a GvG prize pool which still around.I would tend to say it is the introduction of new professions since Factions that made the game different as most are melee based 3 out of 4 Assassin,Dervish and Paragon.I don't believe they play the Paragon in GvG as support role do they more offence.
The Ritualsit is the only role castor role since Prophecies.I don't care much about the new profs. but I do like most of the new skills.

diabiosx · Oct 12, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

i'm not talking about whether your strategies should be able to transfer over. i'm talking about whether the builds will function expectedly or not. it just doesn't make much sense to have different skill functions.

anet's greatest mistake was not making UAX available for pvp-only characters right off the bat. instead, they forced people to go through the pve campaign, which was designed to "prime" the player for pvp. obviously that didn't work as they expected.

different skill function is so when u nerf/buff a skill for pvp it does not affect pve, therefore Anet will be more likely to change a skill to favor pvp without worrying about people complaining in pve. again like u said pve to pvp does not work so why stick with it if it makes pve and pvp unhappy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

the developers wanted a continuous game, so changing the skills so they perform differently in pve and pvp is not an option.

just imagine this: a new player picks up the game, finally played enough of the pve storyline to know enough to test his skills in pvp... only to find that his favourite build stops working and he needs to play something he's not familiar with to be competitive. it just doesn't work.

anyways, pveers already have pve only skills to play with. it's not like any of the skills that will be potentially changed affect them all that much.

a casual new player doesnt get into pvp because no body will accept him anyways.
a hardcore new player comming into pvp wouldnt mind relearning new skill functions if it means better gameplay/competition.(ie soul reaping changes, aegis changes)

pitty_sayonara · Oct 12, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

any good reason why esurge/eburn was buffed?

TheOneMephisto · Oct 12, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitty_sayonara

any good reason why esurge/eburn was buffed?

To make edenial stronger and to promote dom elites (as MoR was nerfed)?

Seamus Finn · Oct 12, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

To make edenial stronger and to promote dom elites (as MoR was nerfed)?

The e-denial aspect of it is untouched. It is more useful for blowing people up though.

TheOneMephisto · Oct 12, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

The e-denial aspect of it is untouched. It is more useful for blowing people up though.

Well, it makes the edenial skills stronger, which is kind of a roundabout way of making the edenial more effective. Meh, my reasoning is weird, you get that they're just trying to make it stronger though.

I think that they just wanted a viable elite for dom mesmers. I mean, hex eater was nerfed (though it still might be used if you're expecting hexes) along with MoR, which means that surge is pretty much the only other option.

Shuuda · Oct 12, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

There are lots of good elites for dom memser, MoR was just the easiest (and skillless) to use:

Power Block
Hex Eater Vortex (is still good)
Panic (is still good)
E Surge (better now)
Air of Disenchament (altough contraversal) (although it's Illusion, has some potenial)
Expel Hexes
Shadow Shroud (could work as spike assist)

twicky_kid · Oct 13, 2007, 03:11 AM // 03:11

All I see now is teams blowing up in about 2 minutes because physical pressure is just too much.

3 wars or 2 frontline and 2 paragons is what I'm seeing in most builds.